Daily Politics EU referendum debate

A man just named as Laurence Taylor has today taken out a full page ad in the Metro newspaper to make the case for Remain.

And it’s deceptively straightforward.

Describing himself as “fed up” and wanting people to discuss immigration “based on facts not fear” – he says he paid for the ad out of his own pocket.

The ad just shows a simple pie chart on top

 

Metro ad1

 

And he says he is fed up with the “rubbish” being talked about immigration

 

Metro ad2

 

And makes sure he get his money’s worth…

 

metro3

 

Here’s the full ad (via @PhillipRowntree)

 

Metro ad 4

 

Bravo, Laurence Taylor, whoever you are!

He’s not the only one fed up with the rubbish being put out in this debate…

  1. Great. Let’s start a movement to imprison politicians every time they lie. Would free up a nice room or five hundred at Westminster.

  2. Yup. It’s not immigrants that have cause the closure of fire station, police stations, maternity wards, A&E, schools… it’s 70 years of British Governments, voted in by British voters…. of all political colours!

  3. Once again the LIES of the leave campaign are exposed. However, the problem lies with all the Mail and Sun “readers” who get fed such lies as truth..

  4. Chris Palmer says:

    Except, he’s wrong about accepting free movement of people if we leave the EU and join the EEA/EFTA (i.e. The Single Market). As Richard North describes in Flexcit, Britain could invoke Articles 112 and 113 of the EEA Agreement which would place an emergency brake and create a quota system within the framework of the Single Market. Liechtenstein successfully did so in 1997 and onwards. They created the legal precedent which Britain could follow. Thus freedom of movement is not necessary for access to the Single Market.

  5. Fiona Stanley says:

    He’s said what so many people are thinking and voicing privately. What a pity the Remain Campaign didn’t say this loud and clear and often, so this bloke didn’t have To spend his own money. Too many public school boys and not enough real people in parliament – please somebody tell Nigel Farrage to shut the f**k up.

  6. Yes great, real commonsense, which is NOT common at all. I’ve posted some facts as well. Someone commented if only the Remain campaign had come out with factual items during the campaign. At the end of the day what matters now is not words but action. This is the future being forged here, it will impact on everyone, for a long, long time so try and make a decision on facts not fears as this guy says. Well done ONS person.

  7. Is that 0.5% spread of the whole of the country though? And that is a net figure which presumes that the people leaving the UK are from the same areas that migrants are moving to, which is not the case. The fact is that migrants tend to go to a small number of towns and regions like Peterborough which are having to deal with a large chunk of those 600,000 migrants.

  8. Fully agree, Laurence. And 300,000 net from EU is only 0.3% of the UK population (3 10ths of 1%), and a small fraction of the UK’s natural population growth rate. Those who go on about this being ‘a island too small to accomodate more people’ are talking rubbish!

  9. The dangerous situation we find ourselves in is nothing to do with the pros & cons of EU membership – it’s all about a power struggle within the Conservative party & the attempt by the right wing of the party to seize control, more fool David Cameron for falling for it, but still greater & more dangerous fool Boris Johnson for cynically putting this country’s future at stake for his own personal gain

  10. Christopher Slater-Walker says:

    @Monty: Err, what? Where is that “presumption?” The NET figure is quite simple: it’s (migrants in)-(migrants out). That’s it. Nothing to do with where they come from or where they’re going. And I think we can safely “presume” that there are many, many more places than Peterborough with migrant populations. Perhaps you could try visiting some of them, and see for yourself.

  11. For everyone complaining about The Mail creating biased copy about the campaign, Metro is published by Associated Newspapers (owners of the Daily Mail), so you’re reading it as well!

  12. @Monty

    But that is just another failing of our own government and social structure, leaving the EU won’t fix that

  13. If you look at the number of migrants in each age band then it shows a much different story
    as the majority of migrants coming in are of a working age whereas the majority of migrants going out are of retirement age… (But have an anecdotal tendency to come home when they get ill.)

    the impact of immigration upon public services is minor, but the impact upon the labour market is palpable.

    Labour and Skills are the commodities which any person when working for an employer is selling. When there is a greater supply than demand of any commodity in the marketplace then the value of the commodity will go down.

  14. Harry Fenton says:

    I think this misses the point, which the protangonists are avoiding anyway: That is, the UK cannot comfortably accommodate the rising population even before external net migration. Already precious greenbelt and some of the best agricultural land (that we *will* need as food security becomes critical in the coming decades), this is being covered with concrete to build more and more houses. In part, this is the fault of the inherited antipathy against the multi-story builds; the building faults of the 1970’s has poisoned people into thinking ‘high rise is bad’. Go see the buildings in Docklands, where you may find examples of how well high rise buildings *can* be designed and built, so much so that extremely well-heeled folk are paying premium prices to live in them. Until opinions change, the increasing population will continue to steal land that should stay green, and inward migration can only make the situation worse.

  15. https://next.ft.com/content/0deacb52-178b-11e6-9d98-00386a18e39d
    The myth that immigrants bring down wages has been debunked on several occasions. In fact, because of our dependency ratio; exporting pensioners in exchange for young taxpayers is an exchange that’s not only beneficial; but vital if we are to be able to keep affording pensions. Our pensioners are living longer and our birth rate is stagnant, meaning the dependency ratio is 1:3.

  16. Chris Carney says:

    Anonymous your view is to simplistic it isn’t market forces that drive down wages in the present situation but the drive to maximise profits at all costs, we now have the situation where employers are actively looking for workers in Romania at lower wages than the are paying to their workers at the moment, immigration is not a driving force which the right would make us believe it is and this figure also includes EU students (in fact all foreign students) who make a massive contribution to our economy (figure quoted at £2 billion +) as for ages of Britons (or other EU nationals) leaving the age thing is an urban myth

  17. Some areas of the country are more populated with immigrants and that’s why problems are arising, so as a solution why don’t the more afluent areas welcome the immigrants with open arms and see just how fast their nice, quiet, safe enviroment becomes a ghetto. You only have to walk the streets of Govanhill to feel the intimidation of large groups of men all hanging around the street corners as well as the discarded househild items strewn along the pavements or wander up and down Argyle St in the city centre and witness how the immigration population are either forced into begging or choose to beg. The politicions have only one agenda and that’s to line their own pockets before retiring with a nice juicy pension.

  18. The 330k migrant figure is based on surveys taken on boats and appears to be completely inaccurate. Over 600,000 people applied for a national insurance number last year. Expect that is nearer the figure.

  19. All those that have a problem with REFUGGEES, and that is many people, deserve to become refuggees. I bet they would develop a whole new way of looking at the subject.

  20. Well done that man. I have been appalled by people’s inability to see the true picture rather than following the lies and innuendos of the Leave campaign.

  21. Since the UK government is free to let in whom they wish from outsider the Union, it would have been more accurate to only show net EU migrants (less than half the 330k), since that is the figure directly impacted by a remain/leave vote (the Leave campaign say They want even MORE non-EU migrants). In which case, the figure would have been under 0.25% of the population – bringing home the point even more starkly. But good on him for this poster!

  22. The immigration issue does need addressing so we can control numbers to manageable amounts to enable us to manage our economy, housing and public services efficiently. Brexit however will solve nothing as we need the single market and that means free movement of people [as Norway has]. We need to invest more in stopping illegal immigration, carefully control immigration from outside the EU, and have a seat at the EU table to determine rules for EU citizens working and living in the UK, with limits on the numbers.

  23. I live in Hatfield in Hertfordshire which has a large University with people from all over attending and a vibrant African, Asian and Polish community. The Zimbabwean choir in a local church is apparently amazing. It makes for a fascinating community and builds awareness that their lots of people in the world and that we have to and can get on. I would rather live in a diverse and multiethnic community than a boring monocultural one.

    I am white, male, 73 years old and have lived in Hatfield for 42 years. I’m voting Remain.

  24. There are 2.8 million internal migrants per year in England and Wales, with some areas gaining and others losing people. If we can’t deal with this relatively small level of immigration, how can we be managing this much bigger level of internal immigration?

  25. Chris Carney, I don’t disagree that people fleeing unsafe countries are welcome to live safe, productive lives in whatever country they settle in, most are actually decent, hard working people who have lost everything through no fault of their own. I’m talking about the immigrants that specificly come to claim benefits, have housing reserved and waiting for them then cause mayhem in the streets, as i said before take a walk around Govanhill and the surrounding areas and you’ll see exactly how bad it is, i highly recommend a lovely stroll around the area after dark then you get a real feel of how intimidating it can be for decent law abiding people from all cultures living around these streets.

  26. From the ONS “There were 695,233 live births in England and Wales in 2014, a decrease of 0.5% from 698,512 in 2013”. Also from ONS “There were 501,424 deaths registered in England and Wales in 2014, compared with 506,790 in 2013 (a fall of 1.1%)”. Immigration isn’t the only thing that increases populations.

  27. Thank you for this Laurence Taylor. People like you give me hope for the future of this country. I’m definitely voting in – like Nigel in an early comment I think there should be an option to keep EU and get rid of our own government.

  28. idiot if he can afford tgis page he obviously has a bob or 2 the IN vote is a vote for the richer to get richer poor 2 get poorer

  29. Chris Palmer says:

    Except, he’s wrong about accepting free movement of people if we leave the EU and join the EEA/EFTA (i.e. The Single Market). As Richard North describes in Flexcit, Britain could invoke Articles 112 and 113 of the EEA Agreement which would place an emergency brake and create a quota system within the framework of the Single Market. Liechtenstein successfully did so in 1997 and onwards. They created the legal precedent which Britain could follow. Thus freedom of movement is not necessary for access to the Single Market.

  30. Even if the Leave camp can control migration, it won’t address the issue of pressure on local services if these migrants congregate in the South East. So are they going to start telling people where they should live when they get here? Will it be a lottery?

  31. Kevin Fuller says:

    Whilst the Brexiters are happily throwing Roman Salutes at Boris – the rest of the country are petrified of the vitriolic language being used by the out campaign – xenophobic, racist and divisive.

  32. Marina Gray says:

    Nigel – stay in the EU and leave Westminster? That’s Scotland’s plan, with any luck!

  33. Stuart,London says:

    Are you people mad? The ONS has released the number of national insurance numbers given to NEW EU nationals last year. 800,000. Many more are here without bothering to apply. That number doesn’t include children they brought with them obviously. The population was a steady 56 million. Look at it now. That’s a 20% increase of people but a few million aren’t accounted for as too recent…. so almost 70 million. So 70 million divided by 56 million multiplied by 100 gives you the percentage. Prepare to be truly horrified. Most of the trade supposedly to Europe is actually just sent to deep sea ports for loading onto huge container ships and sent to non eu states around the world. The remains are sadly massaging the figures of everything. I hate liars and that’s what sends me in the direction of the leave camp. Then on top of that I’ve met various EU citizens all of whom have informed me their countrymen and women are hoping we cote out so they may be offered a referendum as well…..

  34. FAO: Stuart of London: In future, you might want to actually read the documents you’re quoting. That’s presuming, of course, that you’re quoting the ONS figures released in March, which unequivocally state the following:
    “This summary contains 100% statistics on National Insurance Numbers (NINo) allocated to adult overseas nationals, covering the period from January 2002 to March 2016.” [SOURCE: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525367/nino-registrations-adult-overseas-nationals-march-2016.pdf%5D

    Yep, that’s right – since 2002. That’s fourteen years ago. That 800k figure you’re spouting (actually, it’s 826k!) is the TOTAL number of overseas-born people SINCE 2002 that have applied for a national insurance number (which, incidentally, includes people like myself, born in Australia to Scottish-born parents who are, to this day, UK citizens living in Australia.)

  35. @Stuart – if they’ve applied for NHS numbers, then they are probably paying taxes as well…

  36. Irrelevant statistics, this referendum is about England not the u.k an honest mistake maybe but more likely irrelevant stats to exaggerate a viewpoint/ideology

  37. Sean Hannitty says:

    Laurence Taylor, this is a very inspiring initiative you have taken – at least when viewed from across the water in Dublin, Ireland.

    Simplicity, as JK Rowling said, is a very elusive thing – and you have managed to capture it well here.

    I fully subscribe to your argument and just like your style.

    Bravo!

  38. Quote Anonymouse “You only have to walk the streets of Govanhill to feel the intimidation of large groups of men all hanging around the street corners …”

    Have you tried talking to them? When I moved into my council house there was a large group of eastern european men hanging around the entrace to the passage way. I said hello to them and they said hello back and asked me if I was moving in. Next thing one of them had gone back to his house and got his mother to cook a lovely spread of snacks for the removal men and the others told me all about the town and where to pick up bargains.

    I’ve spoken to many immigrants and almost without fail they are decent people with fascinating stories. The only people I’ve ever had problems with on the estate are the white men with rottweilers in tow.

  39. juliet solomon says:

    The number of people coming in is not too much to cope with – but it can only be done if the immigration people control it properly, and make sure incomers go where they are needed, and where the mass of incomers will not outnumber the indigenous population. And it is important for immigrant areas to be kept clean – by the immigrants as well as the local authorities. The same principles would apply to internal movement, even within a city. The resentment is not about odd families here and there, but whole regions of non-native people. Of course within 20 years, the world situation will have cause a huge amount more displacement, so we had better learn to sort it out.

  40. This referendum is about democracy and accountability, not immigration. The leave camp have played a bad card here and the remainers have now defeated the argument. The democratic argument is a no brainer and the leave camp could have easily won this battle. I’m not sure it would make a difference though because many people aren’t bothered about democracy as long as they are lining their pockets. They’ve never had to fight for it, but if we end up remaining, they are going to realize it when its gone and the fight to get it back may be beyond us all.

  41. I only learned today that if the vote is to leave it will take about ten years to get free. Why were we not told that before?

  42. The gov.uk website shows that the 800k number is NOT cumulative. In the year to June 2015 the total number of NINo registrations allocated to adult overseas nationals entering the UK was 917,000 an increase of 352,000 over the previous year. Of these, 697,000 were from the EU.
    These are direct quotes from the website. So please get your figures right when trying to make a point.
    The figures speak for themselves.
    Vote OUT

  43. Imnotforjumpingoffcliffs says:

    Anonymous, if you think that leaving the EU is going to make us better off, you don’t know anything about economics. Almost every economist of any standing says that we will be worse off, and by some way. You are, sadly, misguided. Leaving the EU will not prevent the rich becoming richer, any more than it will allow us to “take back control” or strengthen democracy. Do you not ask yourself why the only people advising us to leave the EU are people like Putin, Trump and Marine Le Pen?

  44. nikki sharpe says:

    Why is the majority of immigrants male under 40s seeking asylum, how come the males all leave and leave the women and children behind , if it was that dangerous shouldn’t the women and children leave and the men stay and fight like our men did in the 2nd world war

  45. large absolute number on a growing trend. Huge demand on public services etc etc plus illegal immigrants plus number is disputed real figure much more

  46. So many people spouting immigrant … when They mean refugee. They are refugees because the British government thought it would be a good idea to air strike the place they call home. It’s only right we should help them

    Commercial migrants don’t beg, don’t hang around in dark oppressive ghettos. They work. They pay into the economy !!!

    Voting out of the EU … will Not strengthen our borders.

  47. It is sad that people have bought into the, we will be better off slogan. No, you will be less protected, so less paid in work.
    Markets bigger than ours will dictate to us. The government will have the working class where they want them, kept down and poor.

    That is just for starters……

  48. Of course leaving the EU will make us Economically better off. We can agree trade deals with India, China. Train our kids, vocational careers are important. Instead of sending people blindly off to university. Rebalancing our labour force and leaving EU is way to acheive this. Why be associated with basket economies with the heart wanting united states of EUrope. Complete nonsense. Vote OUT

  49. …but…but…but… I we don’t blame Johnney foriegner we’d have to take responsiblity ourselves!

  50. Anonymous- “this referendum is about England not the UK…?” then why are Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland voting on their future…Thank you for strengthen my decision to stay away from the leave campaign

  51. I'm outta here says:

    300,000 PER YEAR, small minority contributing, but we have to house them, pay benefit to them and let them use our schools and hospitals… contribute and stay by all means, but if you can’t then go home…

  52. I have no idea whether it is better to leave or remain but I searched the population of Great Britain in 1995, for no particular reason did I choose that date. At that time the population was 58.2million. Now its 64.6 million, for me there is no wonder everything is failing. As services are being reduced the population is growing continuously, it will break us!

  53. Can I remind everyone, if you go back long enough in your family history you may find an ancestor who was a migrant!!! Britain is far from being pure breed!

  54. Please get your facts right! the gov.uk website says:
    “ The total number of NINo registrations to adult overseas nationals in the 12 months to June 2015 was 917 thousand, an increase of 352 thousand (62%) on the previous year.
     Within the European Union (EU) – The number of NINo registrations from EU nationals in the 12 months to June 2015 was 697 thousand, an increase of 277 thousand (66%) on the previous year.”

    These figures speak for themselves.

  55. We can’t cope cos it’s concentrated in a few areas and it’s 0.3% every year not just once! It is the size of Newcastle arriving every year. That means we need to build the infrastructure of Newcastle every year which is probably 70 schools, 2 hospitals, 3 courts, a prison, hundreds of thousands of houses, 30 doctors surgeries, 20 dentists surgeries etc etc . Who is going to pay for that. That’s why!

  56. Can’t believe how many people have fallen for this tripe. .5% per year is massive. It’s been going on for decades and doesn’t take into account exponential growth of population due to births from previous years migrants combined with shrinking services due to necessary austerity measures. Less for everyone! Turkey will soon join too. Causing more pressure and less security. I’m not even bothered by small amounts of immigration. What bothers me is if we one day want an Australian style system. Sorry not allowed. Reforms. Sorry not allowed. Vote to leave ever again. Sorry not allowed. The EU have done some amazing things. But based on their track record, lack of democracy, desire to remove our sovereignty, their plans with the NHS, our inability to leave later or act independently if necessary and the cost (both direct and indirect) leaves me with no other choice but to vote OUT.

  57. Love how the remain people are making reasonable arguments and a lot of the leave people are just yelling “out out out leave leave vote leave” over and over.

    God I seriously hope you guys don’t vote leave.

  58. Somebody please explain to me exactly how leaving the EU makes any of those problems better?

    The NHS won’t work without those foreign workers….
    I don’t see how less people here paying tax means there will be more for everybody…

    Its already been said. A lot of these problems are due to the UK government and will not be solved by leaving the EU.

  59. jerry coughlin says:

    Here is the simplest solution. Leave the EU apply for statehood to the US. We will let you keep your Queen but Charles has to go.
    P.S. Its an elevator not a lift.
    P.S.S. Center is spelled CenTER not Centre.

  60. Why does everyone assume immigration is the sole reason for our population explosion? It is not. People are living longer and improvements in healthcare mean illnesses like cancer which were a death sentence decades ago can now be cured. We have an aging population and need working age immigrants to pay taxes along with those of us born here or our demographic will mean our taxes will rise ever higher to cover the ever increasing health costs of all those elderly ex pats thrown out of Spain if we vote Leave. Also does anyone voting leave really think that leaving the EU will solve all our problems because if you do you will be mightily disappointed. We will still have zero hours contracts, inequality and social problems. The EU cannot be blamed for everything.

  61. Jerry coughlin says:

    Oh yeah you will love Trump. He is like Winston Churchill with a spray on tan and a bad toupee.

  62. Summary of Remain arguments above:
    “Only 826k people over 14 years, and if they registered for NI they might actually be paying taxes….”
    “Access to the common market that accounts for 40% of our exports….”
    “Leave campaign has no idea about how to direct existing migration away from overstressed areas”

    Summary of Leave arguments:
    “Remain is for the rich to become richer ad poor to become poorer”….so thats why Philip Green and Boris Johnson are voting Leave? Those poor solus

    “VOTE LEAVE”
    “OUT OUT OUT”

    Choice is clear……if you want to among a crow of mongs that can’t construct a coherent sentence together let alone an argument based on empirical fact, by all means vote Leave. See how you like it when all your workplace protections and opprtunities for upward mobility dissappear near-overnight

  63. Do people in this forum who scream OUT really believe their live is going to get better if Britain left the EU? Fact of lot of immigrant workers for example is that they are doing either jobs that no one else wants to do, or they are skilled which mean no one else is able to do them.

    Just remember that – also the fact that misgoverned policies will remain misgoverned policies. The NHS will be in further contraction and neither will closed fire stations or vacated coal mines reopen.

    Wake up…! The problem is a different one! Certainly not the EU membership.

    But if anyone thinks leaving a 500mio people strong club with global privileges to go back to become a small nation without any negotiation leverage… it’s like saying you don’t want your football club in the premier league.

    REMAIN is the only choice that makes sense

  64. I’ve walked in the night in towns in England and been terrified by bunches of English boys. And, people “hanging around on street corners” is not necessarily a bad thing. Many people would rather be outside talking to each other than inside watching the telly

  65. Far too simplistic- from the same stats it shows: 1% of our population changes into be ‘migrants’ each year. Of the net population growth migrants represent 14% of the growth. The issue this presents is then the creation of specific concentrations of immigrant populations in areas that then ‘disturb’ the way of life for the settled population in those areas. This in part is due to low levels of integration with the settled population. Not all of the migrants fall into this scenario but enough do to cause a visible change to a degree that is unsettling some people. If you add this to the competition it causes for housing, treatment school places in those specific areas then the issue is clear. Ignoring or denying it wont make it go away

  66. Max Cagnagns says:

    Well just because he’s a Wealthy man it doesn’t mean what it has been published is true. As an immigrant who has gone through citizenship I had to provide all p60s and wage slips for the previous 6 years, because the home office can’t get that information off the work and pension office. Therfore I’m strongly doubting that him of any agency could get such exact figures about population.

  67. We dont need imigrants to keep britain afloat…..give the youngsters proper jobs…..train them properly….put the wasted money going abroad back into free education…..wheres the british doctors ….wheres the british farm workers….engineers….foreign labour undermines british workers wages. A danish company is building 6 power stations in uk, ALL material and labour is bought abroad they use bulgarian welders, danish engineers, they get round uk labour laws by loopholes. We must get out now, create a new political party for the uk working class !!! Out Out Out i dont want my kids future being decided by Europeans who dont obey by their own laws….Did i mention Out !!!!

  68. I’ll vote Remain, because I want the freedom to leave this country and settle in Europe if Boris Johnson should become Prime Minister. Meanwhile, stop blaming immigrants for the policy failures of successive governments in not building sufficient affordable housing, nor investing sufficiently in health and education.

  69. Just goes to show that we have another one who thinks we are stupid. It is not the actual immigration it is the type of immigration. If they came in and worked for proper wages and not give themselves up for work cheaply that might help. Secondly you get the ones who just want to keep pumping out children and stay on benefits. Thirdly you have these extremist Muslims being let in who want to kill us make us change our mode of dress, make us want their religion, raping and marrying children, killing girl babies, beheading people, using shops and streets as a toilet. That is just some of the reasons we are against immigration they come here, the police are afraid to police, the government houses them in houses that our working families could only dream about. SO DO NOT SHOW US A PIE CHART AND SAY THEY ARE ONLY A SMALL PROPORTION WE DO NOT WANT THIS TYPE OF PEOPLE AND BEFORE YOU START MR LAURENCE TAYLOR IT IS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH COLOUR.

  70. Not all people who are voting to leave are doing so based on immigration. Climb down and discuss the real issues. The anti-democratic, neo-liberal institution is doomed. It won’t work.

  71. @Steven
    I could never understand the “democratic argument”in the context of brexit. House of lords is unelectedand and the parliamentary election process is constructed in such a way that only 2 parties (in power since very begging) can ever win. Eu’s not perfect but so isn’t the uk’s system

  72. Well done Laurence. Undemocratic : We elect MEP’s as we elect MP’s. We have Civil Servants and the EU has Civil Servants. The Commissioners are appointed , by elected Governments incl the UK. These are Political appointments by the Conservative Government. We also have the House of Lords that as Steven says, unelected.
    The HOL make 4000 + amendments a year to the legislation passed by the House of Commons. EU unelected is total rubbish !!

  73. James,

    Which issues would you prefer to discuss?
    I agree that the whole campaign has been hijacked by the immigration argument and that both sides have offered misleading and inaccurate stats and statements (politicians)
    I am remain as my own research leads me to believe that this is best option for the country as a whole.
    I am however happy to discuss why you feel it is better to leave if you can offer a meaning full argument for leave on issues other than immigration.

  74. Francis Nelson says:

    In last years general election.
    The tories polled 35% of the vote and won an overall majority
    UKIP Polled 4million votes and won 1 seat
    SNP Polled 1.5million votes and won 56 seats
    And the leave campaign say vote out because the EUis undemocratic
    You could not make it up

  75. Surely it is obvious to all that if 300,000 migrants come in per year they are going to have children. Let’s say for argument’s sake that only one out of every two migrants has a child, that’s 450,000 effective migration coming in and over 10 years that’s 4.5m. That is a significant chunk of the population.

    With the average UK family having just 1.8 children the maths clearly points to the fact that the population would be shrinking, therefore if we did not have immigration we would have no housing shortage, no stress on NHS, no overcrowding trains, etc. etc.

    I am not voting on the basis of immigration however that ad is so ridiculous I had to comment.

  76. Could we just forget immigration for a moment? Greece is just about bankrupt, Italy, France, Spain, Ireland, Portugal in severe financial difficulty. High unemployment, especially for EU youth, can someone tell me why we need to remain in something that is obviously not working?

  77. the ad is interesting but again it complains of miss leading people and facts, but while a 5% increase does not seem much over 20 years it come to 100% increase and as our health service and councils are having budgets cut each year 5% a year increase in demand could actually be a major problem. this whole referendum has been full of opinions and people quoting facts out of context to each other which makes it very hard to compare, our exports is it 40% of exports or 12% of gdp or are they the same, one question if I move to say france will they give me free healthcare to the same standard as we get and will they pay all the same benefits. if they do why do we need holiday insurance cover?

  78. just asking says:

    Democratic argument ? don’t get this, what is it ? is it similar to not having a Constitution but still moaning , a la Osborne etc .. such and such is a constitutional issue. A country that had usurped the sovereignty of close to half of the Worlds nations is now moaning about Democracy bcoz they may have an unequal (can’t see it as subservient, when you have MEPs like farage in the European Parliament) relationship with Europe. Is a European Court of Human Rights rarely differing with UK judiciary, such an undemocratic thing to have . Don’t you think Human Rights are fundamental to any Democracy . Wait till you exit to find out how insignificant you may have become as a small nation now incapable of plundering others resources, that’s when you’ll realise how much the world has changed since the last colony was vacated. Isn’t your life sufficiently uncertain economically that you want added economic uncertainty of a brexit ?

  79. Sorry but he’s only contributed to the idiocy of debates by claiming that one simplistic statistic as a fact. There are many other statistical facts that would contradict The stat he’s chosen as a fact.

    What about the uk population stay that could have been driven by births by immigrants? What about comparison of tax paid on low wages vs benefits and the legal loopholes to avoid paying uk tax? What about the immigration unaccounted from those stats? Hmmm I think there’s a lot of missing ‘facts’…

  80. Better when we're together says:

    Only 7% of the UK has been built on. So we’re not “full”. The infrastructure of the country cannot cope which is what makes it seem full. Immigrants make a net contribution to the country. So why isn’t that money used to resource expansions to the infrastructure? Greedy governments!!! Leaving now would cripple our already fragile economy as well as destroying the NHS very quickly.
    If you had half a brain, you would vote remain!!!

  81. Can I just say that if you want to leave it does not make you racist or anti immigration it means that you see a better way of doing it. If this debate had been more open with people’s genuine concerns over the year the vote may not be as close

  82. I’m out you seriously think that by staying in the world will be a better place, trade will cease jobs will go ! Well if you get your wish, we can all be taken down by the rest of the EU !
    On your heads be it !

  83. And comments like “if you had half a brain ” and xenophobic leavers actually do nothing for your point of view and don’t make. People want to read what you write.

    I voted by post two weeks ago so have not had to watch the country tear itself to shreds , during hat time I have gone out for coffee with friend who voted opposite to me and we respected each other’s choice and haven’t mentioned referendum since.

  84. Young Remain says:

    Funny how 3 months of campaigning and everyone becomes a major in european LEP with a minor in investment banking… Whatever people vote for just heed the words of this man and VOTE WITH FACTS NOT RHETORIC!!!!

    Ps.. Please dont ruin opportunites for us! sincerely a young remain voter

  85. rideforever says:

    Population Density
    India………. 410 people / km2
    England…. 400 people / km2 !!!
    France …….100 people / km2
    Germany ….230 people /km2

    More people makes England like India.

    Is that what you want ?

  86. And if you believe that’s from an ordinary Joe then there really is no hope, ooooh look some fairy hunters just attacked a pink elephant.

  87. Hugo Poindexter says:

    Love the remain voters, they are in a total fantasy land. The EU is a failed institution. And yet people are too scared to vote out.

    The youth of today are a bunch of narcissistic asshats, obsessed with selfies and likes. Young men wear make up and cry like babies. Young women flaunt themselves on Instagram and shout for equality. Bring back the cane and national service!

    If we want to make this country better we should:

    1. Vote leave
    2. Ban religion
    3. Reinstate free university education
    4. Bring in proportional representation
    5. Stop bombing other countries
    6. Invest heavily in science, engineering and the arts
    7. Nationalise the railways

  88. To those using immigration as a reason for Leave: how do you explain that people tend to be afraid of immigration in places where there is very little, while places with higher immigration are overwhelmingly voting IN? It’s a fact.

    I think it’s because people are afraid of what they don’t know, plus they are being used by the populist propaganda.
    And to those I say… Don’t worry- millions of immigrants have not shown up so far in your town, after decades that they could… They are not going to show up now!

  89. Reading these comments form people who want to leave makes me laugh. Immigrants in the UK come from all over the world not just from the EU. So there will still be a problem. Also stop banging on about the strain to the NHS. If a EU national gets treatment the NHS can get the money back from the country the person from. But the NHS cant be bothered most of the time to claim it back.

  90. It seems to be he is stating this as some kind of miniscule number. In percentage terms it may seem small. From a population of 65 million.adding 300 thousand immigrants a year is a heck of big deal. If we are only building 200 hundred thousand homes a year and the highest proportion of these homes are for private buyers.with very few new homes being.built for low income family’s then.ask yourself where are they all going to be accommodated. Not to mention strain on.all the services.

  91. Are they all going to live in cloud cuckoo land. And get jobs in The Ministry Of Silly Statistics?

  92. Probably has a job and owns his own home… Maybe you should direct your question of someone opposite to yourself…

  93. What people forget is that anyone from anywhere (EU or rest of the World) CANNOT migrate here without the UK government allowing it. The EU allows for the free movement of people (holidays, visits, short term working) not emigration. If you are French and come here to work you are still French not a UK citizen and cannot claim anything. Plus more than half of actual migrants come from outside the EU. People mix up migrants, asylum seekers, visiting workers and students.

  94. Please all lift your eyes / heads / hearts to the future – not this Friday but 2030, 2050, 2070 – what kind of country & culture do you want to leave for your grand children & their grand children?
    Immigration is not the real issue – but integration into our British society is !
    So ask yourself which immigrants are integrating and which are not? Where have these different groups come from culturally? Where are the next groups coming from culturally? Will they integrate – or not ???????
    Will they Britain you know & love remain or die?

  95. I am voting out. I am an immigrant coming from a non EU country, somewhere with no democracy. Apreciate what you have and don’t give it away. If your elected goverment is not good enough then change it but don’t give it away. Besides why nobody is questioning the feasibility of the EU as an institution?. Just ask the Greeks.

  96. Hey nonny mouse says:

    Better when we’re together says:
    June 23, 2016 at 12:03 am

    Only 7% of the UK has been built on. So we’re not “full”.

    Agree with the rest of this but not the first part – we need most of our land for agriculture so that 7% is pretty high imho, and nothing seems to come back from brown-field to green belt… Infrastructure is terrible as the fat cats are turning our libraries, pubs and other community services into microflats to sell to fatter overseas cats.

    The planet needs less people not just the UK. We have 5% unemployment, and of those 5% most are unable or won’t do the jobs which the immigrants are filling so the system is working imho. Also we have a higher rate of migration from outside the EU.

    Voting to Bremain!

  97. What utter rubbish! Those outdated results may be based on the fraction of ‘legal’ immigrants which we know of. What we’re talking about (during the immigration part of the eu debate) is closing the door on the uncontrolled mass exodus of foreign migrants and ending the assumption that the UK will take its ‘quota’ of these displaced hordes. No-one can say for sure how many illegal immigrants are in our country. Nor can anyone say how many bring with them useful skills, money or are of any benefit to the UK.
    As far as the immigration argument goes, there is a need to strengthen our voice around the world, to say, “No more! We will not take any more asylum seekers unless they apply from their country of origin, (or one of the myriad of countries they pass through, to get to ours). By all means, produce your documents, along with your proof of skills and make a case for how you can benefit our country but if you lie then you will not get access to our country.”

  98. Many of the 330,000 would be able bodied and/or highly skilled who would do the jobs we are too stuffy to do (like sweeping streets and cleaning public toilets) or don’t have enough skilled workers (doctors, nurses, engineers, scientists, teachers…). They tend to pay more in tax than is taken out in benefits. If we leave, then those who are here already would have to leave in many cases causing shortages. BUT many Brits (about 1,400,000) living in the EU may also have to come home which would be an even bigger strain on housing, welfare, healthcare at a time when we will have less money available to support them. Think about it!

  99. Are people still spouting rubbish about immigrants taking our jobs! Maybe large companies should be penalised for sourcing cheap labour that remains overseas? Call centres etc. And funnily enough, Britain for example is not producing the best scientists, yet we attract them from all over the world to help boost our research outputs as a country.

  100. Why do people keep quoting official figures as if they are worth the paper they a written on!!!! If the official figures show approx 300k then you can be sure the true figure is 5x-10x that.pretty sure official figures do not include people hiding in the dashboard!

  101. I do think about it. Ive thought about it for many years, including those when I worked for the Immigration service and saw violent and troublesome immigrants granted TA (Temporary admission) to our country, so that the IS could get them ‘off their books’. Ive seen immigrants who dont speak english and have no other means, released after midnight, so there are fewer witnesses to them disappearing into the black economy. Ive seen immigrants helped and given gifts by visitors and ‘Asylum Welcome’ representatives, only to slag down those very same helpers, once they’d gone. Ive seen immigrants trawling through generously donated gifts from local church-goers, keeping the phone cards and things of monetary value, then binning the rest. This referendum isnt about immigration alone but Im voting out with a vengeance if we stand one chance in a million of controlling illegal immigration and having a say who enters our small island.

  102. It may only be 0.5% but that is every year and with natural population increase of 0.5% that makes 1% which is why talk of 70 odd million is being discussed as our near future population. Our country is bankrupt has a massive budget deficit and people still say we need to spend more money. Where is it supposed to come from?

  103. Rob Davies, this is a referendum to leave the EU. do you understand what are the borders of the EU and which countries are part of the EU? An illegal migrant is NOT FROM THE EU. is this clear? An EU national is a skilled German, Dutch, French, Italian which is NOT HIDING anywhere! Is working, paying taxes and can’t access to benefit for 4 years!!!! WAKE UP PEOPLE

  104. Isn’t Boris a direct descendant of some obscure German king in 19th century? (Source: Who do you think you are series)

  105. That’s because its .5% a year which is 5% in 10 years equalling about 4 million extra oeople on top of a natural population increase….how many homes, school’s, hospitals, doctors will be built in 10 years to cope with this…..we can’t cope now!!!

  106. This vote is nothing to do with Boris,Gove, Cameron,Celebrities, Heads of Governments or the man in the moon, it’s about our Countries future, They say this is the most important vote in a generation, I think, it’s the most important vote in the history of democracy.This vote could be the last vote that will ever make any difference, stay in, vote at the next General Election for a new PM, it wont make any difference, the vote will be worthless, democracy in this country will be dead. Britain won’t be stronger in Europe, stay in, what have we got to bargain with, Nothing, Cameron got nothing, when he was holding all the Aces, There is a big wide world out there ready to trade, I strongly believe we will prosper out of the EU, I’m not saying it will be a bed of roses and fluffy white clouds, there will be tough times but this is a great country and can resolve them. Vote to leave for the sake of future generations, so they can have democracy, and take this country to greater things.

  107. Mother of 2 islands says:

    I can forgive the leavers for being scared. I can forgive uncertainty. I can even forgive shortsightedness and the through line of Xenophobic rhetoric (a bit). However, given the sheer number of ‘facts’ posited by the leave side that have now been exposed as utter rubbish by various individuals qualified to make such observations, I can’t forgive the stupidity! Undemocratic? What the hell are the EU elections for then?! I voted in them, I’ve made it my business to understand what we’re part of. I fully expect our children will be taught that those seeking to leave were on par with those who believed the Earth to be flat.

  108. Mother of 2 islands says:

    @Daz the EU doesn’t decide our domestic spend, the UK government does. They are hell bent on undermining all public services, blaming it on everything but their chronic underfunding, in order to get people to demand for privatisation of it all. For the NHS the US is waiting in the wings. EU legislation is perhaps our last defence.

  109. I am as pro diversity and inclusion as it is possible to be and would warmly welcome refugees as wellas economic migrants but has anyone actually done the rudimentary math here? 330,000 a year is 3.3 million in a decade. Three Birmingham’s every ten years. I mean what could possibly go wrong with that??!!

  110. Alfred Munonyara says:

    It’s called mushroom management. Keep them in the dark, feed them with manure and let them grow. We need people like you who can separate the wheat drop the chaff. Thank you.

  111. What a great thing to do. Several Qs more or less absent from the ‘debate’. i. By immigrants are we referring to the French, Germans, Spanish, Portuguese, Belgians, Dutch, etc or perchance do we mean the Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians etc? The answer could make you uncomfortable. 2. If we leave the EU who will fill the jobs which are done by immigrants – the Brits? Think before you jump in. 3. As for wages rising when the immigration stops (?) do we remain competitive on the world stage by raising wages or lowering them? And…who pays wages? Employers…is the right answer. But who knows, immigrants may well have been holding guns to their employers heads demanding lower wages just to throw mud in the British workers’ eyes? and 4. If and when Cameron resigns, who takes over, what’s their agenda and who’s backing them? Johnson, Gove, Grayling, Patel, liberal minded, social democrats committed to improving the lives of ordinary folks like us.

  112. Mitch Williams says:

    I may be a little cynical here, but this looks like an advert for the remain campaign!!

    Or will the real Laurence Taylor stand up…!

    Either way, use your vote as it may make the difference to what you want to happen.

    I will be voting for what I believe to be true and not what the bureaucrats from all sides keep telling me is ‘factual’

  113. Russell Fowler says:

    If anyone seriously believes the vote will make any difference anyway then it show’s how out of touch the british public are with our ruling bodies. Yes, they have to be seen to be giving us a choice but anyone with the slightest bit of sense will realise we need to be in the EU being an island with only 1 rail link to the rest of europe. Imports/exports will financially cripple us given the price of fuel now, plus all our industries have been privatized , so it’d be a total no win situation for us on a whole. The decision has already been made & election rigged, jus’ like the independant Scotland vote probably was. Yes other countries have made good for themselfs by staying out of the EU like switzerland & Sweden but they are rail linked to the rest of europe with industries that still belong to them. So staying in the EU will open our borders to immagrants? It’s immagrents that made this country what it is & Britain should be proud of it’s attitude to multicultural society.

  114. Barry Guyton says:

    It is the campaigners on both sides who have made immigration such a focal point. Most people I know are only concerned about illegal immigrants, not legitimate workers from all round the world. Had the last few governments taken better steps to prevent, find, detain and deport illegals it would have been less of a concern and the campaigns could have concentrated on providing facts, not preying on peoples fears. As for our single rail link with Europe, as a former seafarer and latterly in the ports industry I know that the majority of our trade is carried by sea, it is far cheaper to send 10000 tonnes of agribulks in one ship than in 310 lorries. As previously stated, much of our trade only transits via Europe, transhipped in Rotterdam and Europoort. Well done to Laurence for trying to inject some clarity into the muddy waters.

  115. SimonKareem says:

    It’s the type of migrants that causes all the scares with Brexiteers. More than half are from outside the EU, and yes, we get great Australians and Canadians. We also get great Indians and other developing world immigrants. But although a significant minority of immigrants from muslim commonwealth countries are fantastic, the majority don’t accept gays (a recent poll said 100% but I personally know muslims from a Pakistani background who aren’t like this), aren’t that keen on women’s rights or freedom of speech and of whom more than half don’t work. These are the guys forming rape gangs, indulging in electoral fraud and demonstrating for the death of Salman Rushdie. There is a genuine concern about immigration as a result of these immigrants and the hesitancy to appear islamophobic or racist means it isn’t discussed. Leaving the EU means this immigrantion, from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigera and also India which is one of the largest muslim countries in the world, will increase.

  116. population matters says:

    Lies, damned lies and statistics. 0.5% per year is equivalent to adding a new city of Cardiff to the UK annually. Take into account how long this growth has been occurring and how long it will continue to do so. Then factor in the exponential growth of population due to births from previous years migrants…

  117. Stephen Peter Chamberlain says:

    I am a seventy years old man . I will die . The World will not . People and their families must have a safe place to live and prosper . Let’s hope that safe heaven is in Europe .

  118. Chris Smith says:

    Oh, how I wish that my wife had waited a few months before buying her Pounds for her UK visit !
    I think that Cameron opened his mouth when he should have eaten another handful of peanuts instead

  119. I can’t see what’s wrong having migrants in your country.. we just export our competence and ability in your country and you just don’t need to spend a penny.. while in my country i will leave some retired old man or woman without money.
    Seriously, we live in 2016, nationality should be over. But you could still build a big wall around your island if you want, you’d feel better.. i guess.

  120. If the politicians budgeted properly we’d never have got in this mess and the issues of in/out of the EU would never have been raised.

    Too many chiefs/high earners/hangers on it the Governmental tree!

    Is a Deputy Chief Executive in a local Council really worth a package of £120k a year! when our NHS, Schools, Police and Fire Brigades are suffering?

  121. Chris davey says:

    Surely it’s more than immigration,it runs deeper,EU is now to big & becoming a super state run from Brussels & that is dangerous.eventually it will fall apart as most super states do & then there will be in fighting.

  122. Colette Digrandi says:

    It is sad to see that the majority of the UK population has voted to leave the EU without being interested in finding out what the ‘true results’ will be on the country prior to voting. They now have the opportunity to experience the results of their actions.

  123. I voted to Leave for one simple reason – I wanted us to regain our full independence as a sovereign nation – which we are not as a member of the EU where we only have 1/28 pulling power. I want us to have 100% control of our own destiny, that’s all. Simple!

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